Half-Day Tickets
Recently an article by the newly formed group, the National Skiers Action Board, suggested the morning half-day ticket would make for less congestion on the slopes. We have found this to be true, especially at Greek Peak.
I certainly hope that this information will benefit your readers.
Jerry Mahar,
Ass’t. Mgr.
Greek Peak, Inc.
Watch those names!
I was much pleased to see a photograph in your Fall issue taken at the earth-turning for our airport at Mammoth Lakes. However, I was displeased that the name of our airline, which was responsible for this event, was not used.
California Sierra is about to inaugurate its daily scheduled service from Long Beach to Mammoth and on to San Francisco. We will be flying F-27 40-passenger airplanes, and I am sure that many of your readers who are now or who will be doing business with the four ski areas we will be serving will be happy to know that we exist.
Ben Rinaldo
Vice President
California Sierra
Long Beach, Calif.
The personal touch
Please put us on your telephone survey list! We have training programs for employees, incentive plans, and we sample customer opinion of our service! I enjoyed reading your editorial page this month, and as a newcomer to the skiing business I was delighted—but not surprised—to find that we are doing everything “right.” Four years ago, as a non-skier, I married a ski area manager. I have seen him operate a “finished” area which he had developed from scratch, and have watched him build and operate two others. Perhaps some of your readers would be interested in our methods of operation. I say “our” because to everyone associated with an area that Johnnie operates, the area is “ours.” And that is the first part of his employee incentive program!
During the construction of an area, the personnel turnover rate is pretty high, as the loafers and incompetents are eliminated. By the time opening day arrives, there is a good solid nucleus of experienced men available. And they are already functioning as a team—the usual remark, when the first passenger goes up the lift is, “By golly, we did it.” That’s a mighty word, that “we.” These men, who know the lifts, machinery, and the boss, are put to work training (indoctrinating?) the additional men necessary for lift operation, maintenance, parking, etc. That’s the second part of our “incentive program” — everyone who does a good job gets to be a “boss,” and is recognized as an expert at his job. And of course, the money part of the incentive program fits in here, too. But it must be recognized that money is only a part of any incentive program; in our money-oriented society, every area manager must recognize that employee satisfaction cannot be bought.
As your editorial points out, the place we miss the boat in this business is in not knowing what we are selling, so a very major part of our employee indoctrination consists of telling employees, over and over, exactly that. And at this point our philosophy diverges from yours. We do not believe we are selling service. We are selling FUN, or, as Johnnie says it, “FUN, FUN, FUN ! ! ! !” Good service, pleasant surroundings, good conditions; all are conducive to having fun, but fun is the end product.
Just as the personal touch is so valuable in training a loyal employee group, so is it important for training the ski patrolmen and ski school members. A good ski patrol is a real asset to a new area. During the first year of operation, they get pretty much of a free ride; the area is not crowded to capacity, so they just have fun. This is the time to establish the proper attitudes, responsibilities, and loyalties. Direct, friendly, personal contact with the manager or owner will make all the difference in the world. Many of our patrolmen have said, “Before working with you, Johnnie, I’d never even talked to an area manager.” This is really missing the boat, because the patrolmen are the people the public talks to. We have followed the policy of free, early-morning skiing lessons from the ski school for the patrol. The result is a very sharp-looking bunch of patrolmen, and none of the usual intramural fighting between the two groups. Again, more loyalty, more pride, more professionalism. Ski school indoctrination follows along the same lines. The ski school knows that it is their duty to aid and advise the skiing public, not just to sell lessons at set hours of the day! This “aid and advice” includes a quickie lesson on “The Easiest Way to Get the Rest of the Way Down!” You wouldn’t believe how many friends that makes for us!
The personal touch is also the very finest way to handle customer suggestions and complaints. In this day of computers, answering services, etc., most people appreciate having a real, live person to talk to. The way our people are trained, they all know they are expected to be more than polite—they are to be friendly. The public is friendly in response. My whole job at the area is to walk around and talk to people . . . and listen. I hear complaints and praises; Johnnie hears the same. The patrolmen, the ski instructors, the lift operators, the ticket sellers, the bartenders, the cafeteria personnel; all of these are our contact with the public. They all hear and report customer comments. They also listen, they explain, they sympathize, they help out. The greatest value to this kind of relationship with the public is that questions can be answered, wrongs can be righted, misunderstandings straightened out, on the spot. The people go away happy; and that, I’ve been taught, is the whole idea!
I do hope you will excuse the “my husband the genius”-tone of my letter—I just can’t help it!
Linda Johnson
The Wintergreen
Spring Green, Wis.
Chairlifts not the answer
Reading the comments of my esteemed colleagues, Messrs. Corcoran, Moffett and Kircher on the selection of lifts makes me realize how deficient we representatives of ski lift suppliers have been in selling our latest concepts in lift design. The thoughts expressed are archaic in concept—and erroneous in detail. Some up-dating certainly is demanded if an area operator is to have a proper choice.
Since the consensus of these experts favors the chairlift as the only solution for the present, at least let us look at the full picture as it has been developed here and abroad in recent years.
Most American operators are afraid of the single ride ticket. Yet most conscientious operators feel a certain sympathy for the skier who plunks down $6-$10 a day for questionable safe skiing on overcrowded slopes. He dares not charge by the ride since he cannot assure himself of an adequate return on investment. This very fact dictates lower costs for uphill facilities, but the so-called prestige of a chairlift overcomes in his mind the economic factor. What happens? He puts in chairlift after chairlift and has a small fortune attached to the ground to serve a relatively few peak days. For most of the season this equipment runs half or one-third empty with wear and tear relentlessly continuing.
Typically in Europe, relatively few major lifts (tramways and gondolas) provide morning access to the ski slopes that are dotted with surface lifts, charging by the ride. Courchevel, a modern French circus of resorts, for instance, has one tramway, five gondolas, three chairlifts, and 27 surface lifts to serve 4,500 beds. During 1970-71, four more gondola sections will be added plus three more Pomas. Chairlifts are becoming passé in the modern European scene.
The planning of a safe area demands dispersal of lifts and trails. This will become more and more important as the skiing population grows. Isn’t it more practical to spend $25,000 to $35,000 for a 4000-ft. surface lift which can put 600 to 800 skiers an hour into a remote area that perhaps is used weekends only, instead of dumping $150,000 to put 1000-1200/hr. into the same spot when this capacity may never be needed? For the same investment, four or five surface lifts can be built with total capacity of 2500-3000/hr., all spread out over considerably more area.
The argument that a surface lift forms a “fence” up the mountain is only partially valid. The modern surface lift can make multiple bends and “snake” its way up otherwise useless terrain. It can be used by a mixed clientele: some dropping off at intermediate points, some riding to the top. If of the detachable type, only working towbars are launched, reducing wear and risk. The rider is on the ground and skiing, is not subject to uncomfortable wind, nor to the hazards of aerial rescue. The relatively higher speeds mean shorter riding time and more downhill skiing.
The newly-developed automatic launching system lends itself perfectly to a token-operated turnstile operation, reducing ticket checking and arguments about the high cost of lift rides. The day of the long high-speed surface lift has not disappeared — if Europe is any criterion.
At the other end of the spectrum, I take issue with our panel’s comments on the gondola. While twice the cost of a comparable chairlift may be accurate, it was implied that gondolas had inferior capacities. This simply is not true. A figure of 1200-1400 an hour is not only a designer’s dream but an actuality. On slopes over 5000 ft. long the automatic, high-speed, four-to six-place gondola becomes much more than a prestige item. It is a necessity. Witness Vail—considerable waiting lines for the gondolas and a parallel chair operating half-filled. The fear of antagonizing skiers by requiring skis to be removed is a hollow one. Two-thirds of the skiers reaching the Sun Deck at Ajax Mountain in Aspen take their skis off anyway. Cynically, the revenues from doughnuts and coffee don’t look any different on the way to the bank.
A gondola ride is a way to meet people, to loosen the armor-plated boots, to tap the goatskin, or even a little smooching. It is comfortable and fun!
My conclusions, therefore, are different than those of Mr. Snoqualmie, Mr. Boyne Highlands, and Mr. New Hampshire. I forecast a gondola as a main lift on any large mountain—and many surface lifts for ski school slopes, novice slopes, and as access to outlying areas when the skiers demand absence of congestion and variety of trails or runs—and a realistic ticket price in a tightening economy.
Larry Jump
President
Arapahoe Basin, Inc.
Sales Representative,
Pomalift, Inc.
Ski-Mor suggestion to increase capacity
As the builder of the Ski-Mor loading device I would like to offer a third possibility in this discussion of detachable type chairlifts and fixed clamp lifts.
Using a Ski-Mor loading device and pivotal chairs on a heavy duty conventional double chairlift, I could offer the following:
Vertical rise 800 ft.
Inclined length 3000 ft.
Capacity 2600 skiers/hr.
Electric motor 300 HP.
Intermediate towers 20
Number of chairs 292
Diameter of rope 1⅜” special grade
Rope speed 450 ft./min.
Spacing of chairs 21 ft.
My estimated costs would be as follows: $180,000.00 for the lift with the device and additional chairs, $45,000.00 for installation bringing the total to $225,000.00.
As this system has been in use for two seasons at a major ski area, it can be considered a proven product. A parting thought, if a Ski-Mor device can double the capacity of a double chairlift it can double the capacity of a quad or triple chair. This opens the possibility of lifts with capacities of over 5,000 skiers per hr.
Paul E. Gaynor
Gaynor Enterprises Inc.
174 Lowell St.
Arlington, Mass.
Light lunch reading
We think the article on “Your lift man turns skiers off—and away” is so good, that we are wondering if we could have at least four copies to post in our lunchroom and give to our key personnel to have. Also would appreciate the cards to fill out for three of our key employees to receive Ski Area Management.
Bruce Kehr
Sno Country-Stevens Pass
Star Route
Levenworth, Wash. 98826
Kudos for issue
I thought your Winter issue of Ski Area Management was excellent and not just because you printed my observations on chairlift trends. Many other operators have expressed their appreciation of a fine issue.
W. Webb Moffett
President
Snoqualmie Summit
Box 476
Snoqualmie Pass, Wash.
Kinney question
With interest, we have read your article regarding 4 passenger chairlift against double chairlift.
Your arguments are certainly convincing and we would like to know which companies are building double chairlifts for $107,000.00.
Thanking you for your assistance, we remain,
J. Bartels
Vice-President Operations
Mont Gabriel
Quebec, Canada
Kinney replies
The price given for the 150 hp double chairlift with a length of 3000 feet was developed in the late Summer of 1969 and was computed in U.S. dollars. It appears that prices on this year’s lifts are up nearly 10 per cent. That would make a current price of $117,000 for this lift. To apply this figure to a Canadian installation, a federal tax of 12 per cent must be added, and a current exchange rate of about 1.075 taken into account. That would work out like this:
1970 Lift Price,
Canadian dollars $126,500.00
Canadian federal tax 15,180.00
Total price $141,680.00
I realize that $142,000.00 is a far cry from $107,000.00, but the difference is in inflation, exchange and taxes. Our experience this year indicates that the $142,000.00 would be a median price for a group of six leading lift manufacturers.
Robert E. Kinney
Correction
In our cover credit for the Winter issue we mistakenly credited Riblet Tramway Co., instead of Heron Engineering Co. with building the first quadruple chair at Boyne Country.
